Seeing a significant torrent of theories myself on the chronology of Yeshua's execution and resurrection, I am honestly wondering if Hosea 6:1-2 has been properly factored into the discussion. A reading of the larger cotext would seem to indicate that this prophecy does not concern some long-term future prophetic fulfillment, most significantly because Israel stands as proxy for sinful humanity (Hosea 6:7). There is a history of interpreters who have viewed this word as relating to Israel's identification in the death, burial, and resurrection of Messiah Yeshua (cf. Romans 6:3).

At the very least, Hosea 6:1-2 would seem to indicate that three days and three nights equaling a full 72 hours is not necessary (such being the product of a modern binary thinking in 0s and 1s). But the traditional Friday to Sunday might not fit the bill, either. Alas, though, our attention needs to be focused on the larger themes of what the Lord endured for us during this special season!

J.K. McKee | April 7, 2009 2:47 PM

No, I believe Jesus did not die on Friday. just because the next day after His death was a Sabbath did not mean it was the weekly Sabbath. You have forgotten that Jesus died as the Passover Lamb on the actual day of Passover i.e. 14th of Nisan. He fulfilled the role as the Lamb to the day itself. God's timing is always accurate. After the Passover, it is the first day of the Unleavened Bread (15th of Nisan) and this is a Sabbath Day itself and commonly called a High Day. Read Gospel according to John. John called this day a High Day and that is what it was, a High Day. It was this Sabbath, not the weekly Sabbath that is mentioned here.

Benny

Benny | April 8, 2009 8:31 AM

Hey Toby.

Thanks for posting this. It's an interesting topic. I had some big discussions some other Messianics earlier last week about this very issue, the timing of Yeshua's death and rising.

Toby, you said,

"One thing that disheartens me is to see division and endless bickering over these issues. The most important thing about this time of year is that we are regarding Messiah as our Passover lamb and that we are celebrating the Father's Passover Festival to the best of our knowledge and ability."

I agree 100%. I'm sad to say, things got a little heated in my last discussions about this issue. Like the calendar, the world is not impressed by our silly bickering over such things. It's best we don't get overly dogmatic about them.

Shalom, and happy Passover to all you fine people at FFOZ.

Judah Himango | April 8, 2009 10:23 AM

Shalom Brother Toby!

Thank you for this. I had no idea about there being a possibility of anything but three days and three nights. This is very interesting, and the info you put forth is compelling. Thank you so much for sharing. I too think its disheartening for their to be bickering and division....the essence of our commonality is so much greater, so much deeper, with a foundation itself that is love ( 1 John 4:8) so too we should love...or at the very least strive to love in all things...

Be Blessed Achi!! Chag Sameach :)

Danny A. Fluker Jr. | April 8, 2009 12:54 PM

Dear all, yes it is no good to argue over which day did Jesus died. But let me speak my mind out for my God's sake. God instituted laws for us human to follow so that we human can live life to the fullest i.e free from sinful consequences. I have always wonder why we believers cannot just take God for what He had said but change time and laws to suit ourselves? And when some good Christians who love the Word of God (just like king David did) try to correct us, we cry foul and try to use our human reasoning to explain off the law of God and brand those good Christians as legalists. Just like little child trying to give excuse for his mischief. in fact, there should not be any argument as to when Jesus died at all, because it is stated clearly in the bible that he died on the 14th of Nisan. Arguments arise between those who follow the bible and those who do not. Which side are you in, God or human?

Benny

Benny | April 11, 2009 9:34 AM

I read with interest the discussions and from other research I too am convinced of the Friday/Saturday-night scenario. Now here is another thought about celebrating Pesach which I picked up somewhere and am intersted in your thoughts on this Toby:
These texts show without question that the shadowy annual sabbaths were distinct from the weekly sabbaths of the Lord which were observed each seventh day. But don't miss this point: Paul did not indicate that the weekly Sabbath was blotted out at the cross. He designated only the sabbaths that were shadows of things to come. The meat and drink clearly had reference to the various offerings which were required on those ceremonial sabbaths. These were nailed to the cross! The Passover and feast of unleavened bread were included in those sabbaths which were blotted out.
No Christian today needs to celebrate those annual feast days and typical observances. Paul implies that to do so is to go contrary to Christian principles.???

**Toby's Response:** Thanks for your comments. I would respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Send me an e-mail at toby @ ffoz.org and I would like to send you a free book that would offer First Fruit's position.

Helmut Loeffler | April 12, 2009 1:32 AM

What were nailed to the cross is the penalty of sin i.e death, and the sacrificial law. You got to read the bible as a whole to get this. After Christ death, He became our passover lamb and this one sacrifice is an eternal sacrifice for our sin in place of the animal sacrifice which had to be done each year. What Paul was saying is that Christ fulfilled the sacrifice for our sin and there is no need to perform the yearly ritual for sin.

Many Christians mistakenly think that the laws of God was given to Israel as a way TO salvation. NO NO and NO. The Hebrews were not promised eternal life if they keep them. The laws of God was never a way TO salvation but the way of righteous living. All the laws except the sacrificial laws were given to guide us in our daily lives. In the new testament age, God said that he will put this laws into our heart. This is the same as saying He will transform us with His Holy Spirit for righteous living which is in accordance with the law.

Benny | April 13, 2009 8:56 AM

Did Yeshua and His disciples eat the Pesach Seder? if so then the Lamb was already sacrificed and He died the next morning. Benny, He can fulfill the Pesach shadow without necessarily dying at the exact time that the lambs were slain. Without the passage referring to Jonah, all other text appears to point to a Friday crucifixion and enter the tomb, then rest on the Sabbath, then raise early the first day of the week (probably sat night). It would be stretching the narratives to add another day in there where there is no record. Remember the women wanted to bring the spices asap, but needed to wait and rest because it was the Sabbath, then when they arrived just after that Sabbath, which was the 1st day of the week, He was already risen. I think Toby is right on, even though i also used to argue for a Wed crucifixion.

nick | April 13, 2009 11:25 PM

While the most important issue is that Yeshua is the Passover lamb, the significance of messianic events occuring on the appointed times (moedim) should not be overlooked. Scripture reveals a perfect Creator who is highly consistent; Who works in predictable patterns and declares what He will do ahead of time. Detaching the slaughter of Yeshua from the Passover slaughter is inconsistent with God's messianic revelations on the other Feasts both before and after Passover. Given this unchanging characteristic of God and the fact that a literal 72 hours actually makes logical sense, I see no need to allegorize scripture and accept the Roman Catholic exhaltation of Good Friday.

Keith | April 14, 2009 11:09 AM

It may be of interest to some about the gentile history of the church in the early years just after the Apostles died.

Polycarp was known to have been taught by the apsotle John and when he visited a bishop of Rome Anicetus around 155 CE. Polycarp wouldn't budge on changing the 14th day for observance. Neither did a later bishop from Polycarps area, Polycrates who even oppossed a change to the 14th in much stronger language. Seeing Rome was trying to impose a change in date upon them.

What I've come to know from the Bible and my gentile history, I observe the 14th as the date for Passover. After near 2000 years, Good Friday and Easter are but foreign gods.

Norbert | April 15, 2009 12:26 PM

Nick, thanks for the comment. If you believe the bible is always right and there is no error in it, then read on.
Please compare Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:56. Mark mentioned that the women bought spice AFTER the Sabbath. Luke mentioned that the women prepared spice BEFORE the Sabbath. Without buying the spice before Sabbath, how could they prepare spice before the Sabbath? The answer is that there were 2 Sabbaths in that year Jesus died. One is the 15th Nisan (First Day of the Unleavened Bread) and the second is the weekly Sabbath (Friday/Saturday). Now look at Matt 28:1, in english it is translated Sabbath, but in original Greek, this should be plural i.e Sabbaths. Please recount the days and see if you can come out with a Friday crucifixion. The actual situation was both Mark and Luke were referring to different Sabbaths in their gospel account. A little analysis will clear things up.

Benny

Benny | April 16, 2009 5:28 AM

Nick said: "Without the passage referring to Jonah, all other text appears to point to a Friday crucifixion and enter the tomb, then rest on the Sabbath, then raise early the first day of the week (probably sat night)."

I have a detailed reconciliation of the various accounts - without reference to Jonah - which strongly supports Wednesday execution, Sunday resurrection. If Nick is interested, please pass on my email address to him - basil@pop.co.za.

Basil Fernie | April 16, 2009 9:09 AM

Could it be that the missing day that seems to be on everyone's mind is, in fact, a High day? If this High day were a Friday, the problem of the ladies trying to get out early to get the spices to Yeshua after only one day would be alleviated by understanding that both the High day and the weekly Shabbat would both disallow the women to work or come in contact with His dead body. After reading the 'Good Thursday' model in Volume 4 Torah Club Parasha for Pekudei, this understanding would be easiest to biblically accept.

Jonah | April 16, 2009 10:07 AM

but you guys never answered that question about the seder? what was that "last supper"? if it was the Passover seder then the lambs were already slain and were being eaten, and we know He was crucified on the next morning after that "last supper". also what about the women wanting to bring spices, do you think they rested on the annual sabbath, or the weekly sabbath? we know that as soon as that sabbath was over they went to the tomb and He was risen which was the first day of the week. don't let your expectations for how you think God should fulfill things outweigh the actual text and records.

nick | April 16, 2009 10:16 AM

Nick, these questions are addressed in the 3-page reconciliation that I have drawn up.

Basil Fernie | April 16, 2009 5:36 PM

I have had a tendency to quibble on differences, but am trying to overcome it. I have been looking at the issue of when He died, etc., this season, and it is refreshing to have sound reason in differing opinions. I agree that the point of the Feast is not to have to know all the whys and the wherefores, but rather the point of Passover is this: unity. The biggest thing commanded for Passover is that all Israel, as one, sacrifice the lamb at twilight. Here's something to ponder and work out. But I trust Him to bring all our differences to naught, that we will be one. Unity, not bickering. We do have to learn to overlook the differences. For the record, though, I don't want to sound as though the details don't matter, because I believe they do - very much. It's just that we mustn't condemn one another for understanding the texts differently. Was the Last Supper a Seder meal? That is an excellent question!

DAP | April 17, 2009 1:29 AM

Nick, yes, the last supper was the passover meal. The lamb was slaughtered. But remember, at that time Christ was not "slaughtered" yet, therefore, as a sinless man, He had to observe the Passover and eat the meal of Passover lamb. If not, how can He be called a sinless man? He was "slaughtered" the next morning which was still the Passover as God's day start and end from sunset to sunset. If you think God view day as starting and ending from 12am to 12am, you are wrong. As for buying spice after the Sabbath (if you think it is the weekly Sababth of Saturday), is there a 24 hour convenient store then????? Remember the Sabbath ends at sunset which mean shops were not open. Therefore the whole sequence is this: The women rested on the Sabbath of 15th Nisan (Thur), bought and prepared spice after this Sabbath on Friday, rested on the weekly Sabbath of Saturday, went to the tomb on Sunday morning before sunrise. Remember a day begins at sunset and ends the next sunset, not 12am to 12am.

Benny | April 17, 2009 10:35 AM

Well I don't think this really needs to be a "debate," but just a simple discussion. The solution to the problem is easily reconciled. There were two calendars at play during the time. One lunar, one solar. When we recongize two calendars then the differnces in the synoptic gospels and John regarding the timing of Passover and Unlevened Bread dissappear.

The Qumran texts (i.e. Dead Sea Scrolls) detail the solar calendar of the time. It consisted of a solar calendar of 364 days divided into seven-day weeks, twelve months of thirty days each except for one extra day in the last month of each quarter. Unlike the lunar calendar the holidays were fixed and many including Passover always began on Wednesday/Tuesday evening according to the Jewish reconing of days beginning at evening not midnight.

The principle of Occam's Razor states: if there are a number of explanations for a thing, the simplest explanation is usually correct. The most simple and direct is the solar calendar.

NY | April 21, 2009 6:13 PM

Hello,
When I first read Toby's artical I thought that maybe it may be correct, but then I got to thinking about all of the other scripture. I understand that there are many errors in the kjv and other translations. But the error is not in the origanal manuscriptes which we dont have. My comment is.
If you are going to write off part of a scripture to try and make a teaching or a doctrine from it, you will also need to adjust all of the other scriptures that relate to it. Your scripture comes from Mt 12:38-40. And you can adjust that to fit what you want it to say, but then you need to fit these also,Mt.26:61, 27:40,63, Mk:31, Mk:14:58, 15:29, Jn2:19-22. The lie that was told about Yeshua in Mt26:61 was that He "Yeshua" was going to destroy the temple. I believe that It was a wednsday evening that He died and on the third day at the same time He arose. There are two Sabbaths spoken of here. 1 a High Sabbath, 2 a weekly Sabbath. Thank you for allowing me to comment. Reuben

Reuben | April 26, 2009 10:35 AM

You are right reuben, Jesus died on wednesday and rose on saturday evening and not sunday morning. Why did the roman catholics and mainstream christians believed that he rose on sunday? The problem is just because the bible says the women visited the tomb on sunday, therefore Christ rose on sunday. No, if you read the bible properly, the bible DID NOT MENTION WHEN DID JESUS AROSE. This may surprise many. There are only 2 portions of the 4 accounts of the gospel that "seem" to indicate a sunday resurrection i.e Matt 28:1-5 and Mk 16:9. First, Mk 16:9. This portion of the book of Mark is not found in earliest manuscripts and most commentaries will advise not to build any doctrine base on this portion of the book. Second, Matt 28:1-5. If you read the whole bible, you will realise that many times, the proceeding verse actually happened before the preceeding verse. Gen 2:18 and Gen 2:19 are one example. Matt 28:2 happened before Matt 28:1. Matt 28:2 happened on saturday evening.

Benny | April 29, 2009 8:28 AM

To this I have to coin a phrase you used on The Folded napkin, Balderdash:)
John 19:14 Clearly tells us that it was the preparation day of the Passover, vs
31 also talks about the preperation day for the Passover, a high Sabbath.
So as far as I can see it is clearly before the weekly Sabbath.
The first time the women would have been able to buy spices to prepare for
Yeshua would have been the day after that & that was the prep day mark16:1 for the weekly sabbath & only after that would they have gone to the tomb at the end of the Sabbath. 3 days & 3 nights make Yeshua truthful & Scriptural.
Matthew 27:62 On the next day, which followed the day of preparation the
chief priests & pharisees gathered together to Pilate, NOW if this is Shabbat
what were they doing there, its not Shabbat, its Friday. He said "AFTER 3 days I will rise" In their own words & they ask for the tomb to be secured,
until the 3rd day.
That makes it a wed burial, thurs Sabbath, Friday prep & risen Havdelah

Marion Kotze | May 4, 2009 4:42 AM

I just wanted to say further to my previous comment, that I find it very
difficult to deal with that even in the Messianic movement, that Yeshua is
made out to be a liar. 3 days & 3 nights are 72 hours & if we do not see that,
then we are reading the Word incorrectly.
I respectfully request that we seek to find the truth & not teach people untruths.
Thank you.

**Toby's Response:** I think it is equally important to not assume that just because we feel strongly in our opinions, doesn’t mean that people with differing opinions aren’t also reading the Bible and trying to ascertain truth through the Holy Spirit. I don’t mind people disagreeing with what I have said but to make accusations that I am making Yeshua out to be a liar or not reading the Bible is something that troubles me. We should be dialoguing in love and understand with a genuine interest in trying to understand our fellow believer’s perspective.

Marion Kotze | May 4, 2009 6:00 AM

Apologies, that was meant to be a general comment & I did say we read
incorrectly, not u don't study the Bible.
Yes I do feel strongly about this, I have had this debate too many times.
I am not calling u a liar, by our saying that the time was not 3days & 3 nights
we call Messiah Y'shua a liar. Either we believe Him or not. Choice is yours.
Blessings & shalom in Messiah Y'shua.

**Toby Janicki** Apology accepted.And yes you did say read it incorrectly. I understand what you are saying but not everything is meant to be taken literally like "if your right hand causes you to sin cut it out." First century Jewish teaching was filled with idioms and metaphors. I believe this is one of them. We also have that textual variant form the Gospel of the Hebrews to the passage in Matthew. Most of the time the Master says “on the third day.” Believe it or not as I said I used to teach a Wednesday crucifixion and then came back to a Good Friday position, so I understand where you are coming form and even felt the same way you do at one point. Nevertheless, the most important issue is that he died and rose again.

Marion | May 4, 2009 8:34 PM

Here is how the authors of the Didascalia Apostolorum (Apostolic Constitution) tried to reconcile things.

"And Judas came with the scribes and with the priests of the people, and betrayed our Lord Jesus. Now this was done on the fourth day of the week. For when we had eaten the passover on the third day of the week at even, we went forth to the Mount of Olives; and in the night they seized our Lord Jesus. And the next day, which was the fourth of the week, He remained in ward in the house of Caiaphas the high priest. And on the same day the chiefs of the people were assembled and took counsel against Him. And on the next day again, which was the fifth of the week, they brought Him to Pilate the governor. And He remained again in ward with Pilate the night after the fifth day of the week. But when it drew on (towards day) on the Friday, they accused him much [Mk 15.3] before Pilate; and they could show nothing that was true, but gave false witness against Him....

NY | May 5, 2009 1:14 PM

So basically the authors of Didascalia Apostolorum admit the Tuesday/Wednesday seder (4th day of week) but they prolong the time of Yeshua's confinement and trial to come up with the classic "Good Friday" bit. This is the Catholic stance. However, it's interesting to know that the Eastern Orthodox Church recognized the Tuesday/Wednesday pesach seder and early crucifixion.

NY | May 5, 2009 1:22 PM

I like to add a final comment to those who questioned why didn't the women do everything by friday (prepare spice and go the tomb on friday if Jesus was indeed buried on wednesday). Well the answer is really simple. The seal of the Roman was still intact and valid. Nobody in her sanity will want to challenge the Roman by breaking the seal at Jesus' tomb. The women knew very well that the seal was valid for three days and will only expired on saturday evening (thursday being the first day). The best day to break the seal will be first thing on sunday morning. Therefore, the women went to the tomb before first light on sunday as recorded by John.
As for teaching untruth, I would like to say that those who believe Jesus died on friday and rose on sunday are just misled by the roman catholic. I believe these believers are sincere in their faith in God/Jesus. But there is such a thing call being sincerely wrong due to misinformation.

**Toby's Response:** Let me remind you, that at least for me, I have taught the Wednesday crucifixion in the past. Now, after re-examining I have changed my mind. Just as you have probably heard all my arguments before, I have heard yours as well. I can respect your postion and appreciate your convictions.

Benny | May 6, 2009 5:43 AM

Please, can anyone try to reconcile Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:56. If the bible is right, then there must be a way to reconcile these 2 verses regarding the women Buying spice After the Sabbath (Mark 16:1) and the women Prepared spice BEFORE the Sabbath (Luke 23:56). How can the women prepare spice(before Sabbath) before buying it (after Sabbath), if the day was a friday? Remember, the Sabbath ends at sunset Saturday. If you think they bought the spice after sunset Saturday, how can they rest after preparing the spice when the Sabbath was already over? Luke clearly mentioned that they rested on the Sabbath after preparing the spice. Now, remember, based on your conviction of a friday burial, there isn't anymore Sabbath for the women to rest after preparing spice on Saturday evening. This run contrary to Luke account.

Benny | May 7, 2009 5:48 AM

Scripture tells us clearly that Jesus was three days and three nights in the grave. Jesus Himself said that as Jonah was three days and nights in the whale so would He be in His grave.
Dave Hunt gives the best Scriptural and logical explanation of the three days and three nights in his book "How Close Are We?"
"Read superficially," he says, "the Scripture account of those important days from Nisan 10-14 seems to contradict itself. Unless one has a clear understanding of events..." he goes on to explain how the Scriptures show Jesus did indeed spend three days and three nights in the tomb.
After all, we are to believe Jesus died and rose from the dead ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE. Other beliefs, then, are wrong.
Mr Hunt quotes dating from the Astronomer Royal at Greenwich, England, which backs up the Bible's claims to the very date when our Saviour had to die to fulfil prophecy. He also shows the details in the Gospels backing the three days and three nights. Please check this book.

***Toby's Response:*** I would highly recommend this article: http://www.jerusalemperspective.com/Default.aspx?tabid=27&ArticleID=1498

Martin Horan | May 7, 2009 4:39 PM

Toby, the article you recommended did not answer my question about Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:56. The Scriptures clearly stated that the women bought spice only AFTER the Sabbath, not before the Sabbath (Mark 16:1). How could the women prepare spice on a friday when they did not have any spice in the first place? Mark 16:1 says the women bought spice AFTER the Sabbath.

***Toby's Response:*** Benny the article was not meant to answer your question, it was for the previous poster. But it is a good question. I think if you read Luke where they prepare the spices it seems quite clear that they prepared the spices right after the crucifixion and they had seen his body. Perhaps after Shabbat they bought some additional ones. I just don't see that big of a gap of time in the narratives to give credence to your theory. That’s my perspective at least.

Benny | May 8, 2009 9:59 AM

well, anyone can interpret the bible the way they like even if it is against logic. anyone can make any part of the scripture to be idioms and metaphors. No wonder the roman catholic can make the creation as part of evolution in the past. Some even charge that the whole book of Job is idioms and metaphors. Anyway, thanks for allowing me to comment all these while and you need not have to reply to this.

May God allows all who believe in Him to understand the Scriptures the way He wants them to understand in the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which is not based on what each individual feels like to believe, but a belief that is one and truthful, because the Holy Spirit will never teach anything against God's Law, including the law that Christ died on the Passover. Thanks and take care. Bye

***Toby's Reponse:*** Amen and Shavua Tov!

Benny | May 8, 2009 9:53 PM

Another approach is to start from first century Jewish sources to gain an understanding of Festal observances for this period, as here:

http://www.mortalresurrection.com/2009/05/09/reconciling-the-eyewitness-accounts/

john | May 14, 2009 10:33 AM