For the future, it might be good that we not draw attention to the terminology issue, but instead take a cue from the inclusive language debate. It is not wise for one to always use terms like man, mankind, and brothers--especially given ongoing changes to the English laguage--when perfectly legitimate alternatives that can be weaved in like human being, humanity, and brothers and sisters.

(I think we'll all agree "The Sabbath was made for humankind" [Mark 2:27, NRSV] is a much clearer rendering than just "man.")

In a similiar vein, it might not be a bad idea to use nations, peoples at large, non-Jew(ish), and even the proper nationalities of the various people groups seen in the Apostolic Scriptures more frequently.

**Toby's Response:** Thanks for your comments, John. While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, the point of my blog was that we as non-Jews in Messiah need to get to the point where we are comfortable calling ourselves "Gentiles," especially when dialoging with greater Judaism and those outside of Messianic Judaism who would be most familiar with that language. But yes, you are right that in that context it means "nations."

J.K. McKee | February 26, 2009 7:32 PM

Toby, I understand exactly what you are saying. But more often than not, the 'real' meaning of frequently used terms, like "gentile" and "goy" is what is ascribed to it by how people commonly use it, and not its strict dictionary definition. In this case, "nations" or "non-Jews" might be more suitable.

The term "goy" for instance, is often used dispassionately by English and Yiddish speakers, even some Hebrew speakers, and it is common in Jewish humor to mention "goy" in a derogatory way, as the opposite of "Jew" in a good way. In Israel however, generally, people from the nations are mostly referred to as "non-Jewish", and this certainly does not carry any negative weight.

I don't think we have to be stuck with using Latin terms (gentile), or Hebrew terms (goy), when it could have a negative connotation.

**Toby's Response:** Thank you for your comments as well. I want to clarify that the purpose of my post is not to set in stone terminology but to help non-Jews who have now been grafted into Israel feel comfortable about who they are. We should not have to hide our status as Gentiles (i.e. of the nations) or try to somehow construe that we are now Jews. The term Gentile does not always refer to pagans.

We even find evidence in the Apostolic wirings of the term being used to describe heathens (Peter himself uses the term this way in 1 Peter 2:12) but at the same time this does not stop the Apostles from using it to describe believers in Messiah.

Avner | February 27, 2009 7:22 AM

Where is the Gate of the Gentiles in the New Jerusalem?

Teaching people to be "comfortable" with using a derogatory term used by greater Judaism as "idol worshipper" serves to destroy whatever witness such a believer from the nations would bring to a non believing Jew, no matter if one tried to clarify it. Granted, believers do come from the nations, and they are not Jewish until they go through orthodox conversion, but we should be expecting them to be on their way to full converts in order for them to participate in something as basic as Pesach of which the Master said, "do this in remembrance of me." At that point (of conversion) they are fully Jews and should be recognized as such, and not reminded that they were once gentiles.

**Toby's Response:** Once again, thank you for the feedback. I do not desire to argue nuances here and discuss such complex issues as conversion. The simple point of this blog was to make people from the nations feel comfortable that they are not Jews but Gentiles. As I have pointed out this is the terminology of the Apostles. In their day “Gentile” was used to refer to pagans as well but that is NOT the exclusive definition of the word. That is the point of this blog. If you are Gentile be proud of what God made you. You have been brought into the commonwealth of Israel and are now a part of the convents. You are fellow heirs with the Jewish people. We now have access to the Torah without conversion through the work of Messiah.

Israel | February 27, 2009 10:13 AM

Toby,
The perspective of the Apostles' terminology is very interesting. Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing the expanded information on this in the Journal.

Peace

Cliff | February 27, 2009 11:04 AM

Thumbs up Toby, your the best.

Jeremiah Michael | February 27, 2009 1:33 PM

Unfortunately, it is true that many feel like "lesser believers" because they are Gentiles by birth, and this has led to what in some cases is an unhealthy and off-balance desire to somehow identify themselves with Israel.

I'm a Celt by bloodline. All my ancestors either worshipped false gods or became Catholic. The Torah held no interest for them. However, I don't see this as a liability or something to be ashamed of. What greater evidence is there of Hashem's mercy (and sense of humor!) than when He draws Gentiles away from their previous lives and customs and makes them hungry for something as alien to them as Torah? Gentile believers who submit to Torah offer an incredible testimony to their own people, but especially to Israel. Let's be comfortable in the skin we were given and let the changes in our lives stick out there the way they were meant to. After all, aren't we supposed to "provoke Israel to jealousy"?

Happy Sabbath!

MJ

MJ Belko | February 27, 2009 2:50 PM

Hi,

Nothing profound...

I thought the proper term for a righteous non-Jew was a ger (gerim.) I do tend to associate paganism and Gentile (goy/ goyim.)

Ger = inclusion and these are those who've been grafted in

**Toby's Response:** Yes, that is true, but in the Apstolic Writings those from the nations are called Gentiles. I must point out that it is clear that halachicaly ("legally") a Gentile in Messiah has a different status then a Gentile outside of Messiah. They are not the same.

Jael | March 2, 2009 8:46 AM

I agree that the word "goy" means nations sometimes and that Israel is occasionally in scripture referred to as a "goy"--meaning nation. However, in the majority of instances the word "goyim" is used to refer to all the nations OTHER than Israel. And historically these were pagan nations. If we are indeed grafted into the nation of Israel and like Ruth leave our old heritage behind to enjoy the heritage of Jacob (Isaiah says) and be included as heirs through the Messiah to, the covenants of promise given to Israel; why is it important to continue to call ourselves Gentiles. Rav Shaul says of people like us, "You who were formerly Gentiles". To me that means that I WAS from the nations, but now I am part of the nation of Israel. I'm not a Jew but I am a non-Jewish part of Israel--like Ruth the Moabite. I don't feel I need a 'title'--I'm included in the household of G-D and that's all I need for my identity. Is this not 'vain geneology"?

**Toby's Response:** Thanks for the comment. Yes, Paul does say that but as I have pointed out in other palces he continues to call those from the nations, Gentiles.

Joan MacDonald | March 2, 2009 12:02 PM

Shalom, this term gentile has to be dealt with now ....we have all the adequate tool to do so . We all know that it could mean people but when contrasted with Israel it definitely pagan, Since G-d in the Tanach devides the world in 2 His Kingdom=Israel=His people and the rest of the world=gentiles When translators write Gentiles as people of others races (meaning non-hebrews) who are part of Israel they should no longer be called gentile. We can read that from Ephesians 2:11-19...they are fully part of Israel...since the exodus we read of the mixed multitude(of non-Hebraic descent) who were part of the entire people of Israel.In Romans we can also read about all the fullness of the gentiles( which should be the the fullness of the non-Hebrews) who will enter Israel so all the entirety of would be saved. These are certainly the sheep who are not of this house(Hebraic descent, not native Israelite). Nevertheless called according to the election as promised to Abraham .

**Toby's Response:** I don’t think the term Gentile is that black and white. It has connotations of pagan but also of just one from the nations. I highly doubt Paul was referring to a “church of pagans.” Also note that in Ephesians 3 (as quoted above) he referred to the nations as “you Gentiles.” I highly doubt he meant “you Pagans.”

Patrick | March 2, 2009 3:46 PM

Shalom once again,
following my first message, I would like to add that the translators should be able to sort this out but I suspect an agenda behind this omission .The division of the people of G-d. This great plan which began in genesis is still in effect involving many in sheep clothing within us. A gentile who come in the house of G-d is no longer a gentile he/she part of Israel.now until we are using the term goy of Israel we meant goy as opposed to Israel And we know Paul never meant that. Yes Israel is composed of people of all races but as opposed to the rest of the world as the Bible mentions the world we are no longer part of.Its talking about the gentile world. All other nations are pagan npo matter what they say believing in the one G-d..until they believe in the G-d of Israel.That makes them part of the people of G-d , Israel.gentiles are pagans.The word in most of the Christians bible should be corrected. People of all races, or people of non Hebraic descents no gentile

**Toby's Response:** What is the basis for your advocating the omission of this word? I don’t believe this is a textual variant and/or that there are any other manuscripts with alternate readings. I think it’s dangerous to arbitrarily remove things from the text because they make us uncomfortable. Look Gentile up in any lexicon and you will see it has several connotations, i.e. it does not always mean pagan. As for the word ethnos it is most often used to translate goy in the LXX.

Patrick | March 2, 2009 4:03 PM

The beauty of Israel is that it is a mixed multitude. It is a community of people that have been called out. Many are native born, many are of the nations and have chosen to become part of the people.

Paul’s mission was to teach inclusion of the nations into the family of Israel—yet he, and the whole apostolic leadership, also maintained ethnic distinction. This really rubs us wrong in this age of equality as we feel that this is discrimination and it goes against our nature.

Toby’s point is one of encouragement to gentiles to be proud of being a called out one from among the nations and to not fall prey to the bad, emotionally charged, theology that teaches that the term gentile strictly means pagan. I think it is important that there are “righteous gentiles” recognized within the community of Israel. I think this represents the roles outlined in Duet 4, Mat. 5, Ehp. 2, etc. Some may think that these issues are minutia and unnecessary but in reality they are (this is) really a big deal. Minimizing the unique distinctions, biblical distinctions, is one of the many wicked roots of anti-Semitism and replacement theology.

At some point, in an upcoming issue of Messiah Journal, this issue will be addressed extensively. =

Boaz Michael | March 2, 2009 4:18 PM

some time back i was in my prayer room worshiping the lord. during this time God gave me a vision . There where stones piled high and some flat on the ground. What are these Lord I asked? I heard in my Spirit they are alters and stepping stones. When I saw your book one Boundary Stone I was amazed at the likeness to my vision. I ordered the book and slowly reading it. I am looking to the Lord for more revelation. Thank you for your obedience to Messiah in printing this book for the body of believers who believe Yeshua reveals the secrets hidden in HIS Word. s.c sebring fl.

sandra r carter | March 3, 2009 10:16 AM

Apologies! I am growing to hope that my "longwindedness" is apparently a good attribute, since all good things come from the Father above. His Spirit is a Mighty Rushing Wind ( blows to and fro, wherever it wills). In reference to my previous posting, I didn't realize I was so close to the limitation. Anxious to meet you all.May Adonai bless you all.

Ya'acov ben Chaim | March 3, 2009 10:57 AM

Brother Toby,

I really appreciate this blog. I personally am extremely proud of being a gentile. This is due in part because I came into the faith ten years ago, and was part of an identity movement amongst the African American community; and for all that time (up until the past year or so) I held the conviction that I was a blood descendant of Israel. How liberating it was for me when, through prayer and scripture study; I came to terms with the reality of being a seed of Abraham solely by faith in THE seed of Abraham, our Master Yeshua. I felt like I had been immersed all over again when I placed my identity solely in Messiah. Readings such as "The Mystery of the Gospel" confirmed my new found convictions. Baruch Hashem...I am a Gentile, part of Israel through Her Messiah and I am proud :)

D.A. Fluker II | March 4, 2009 9:45 AM

Shalom Toby,
Gentile believers are part of the Commonwealth of Israel, because they are added to Israel by their faith. Now my question is: What is the status of the children of these Gentile believers? Are they home-born Israelites, and if so, are they Jews? If not, what is the difference between a home-born Israelite and a Jew?

**Toby's Response:** I would think that they would be Gentile (in the sense of non-Jewish) but members of the commonwealth of Israel.

Geert ter Horst | March 5, 2009 8:07 PM

Dear Toby:

Sadly, I have to admit the terminology is offensive to me. i realize that "gentile" is not negative but in the past it has been used in such a derogatory way. In my opinion, I can't resolve this question, "if gentiles are grafted into the same tree, then why does the tree have different names for the branches grafted into it?"

**Toby's Response:** See the answer to the last comment. I think those resources will help you as well.

Deb | March 7, 2009 5:41 PM

I trust and follow all the teachings of FFOZ, but even though I have read "The Mystery of the Gospel", and innumerable articles on the subject, the question is always there: What does it mean to be part of the commonwealth of Israel? If we're still considered Gentiles, how can we call ourselves Israelites? Does that mean that we will be part of the multitudes from the Book of Revelation? Or part of Israel?
Who leads and who follows? And what about the Christian belivers who don't know much Torah?

**Toby's Response:** We are releasing soon a new version of Mystery of the Gospel called Grafted In. I think the new preface and additional chapters might help answer some of these questions. Also, be on the lookout for Messiah Journal 101 where the whole issue will be dedicated to this topic.

M.C.P | March 8, 2009 6:25 PM

Toby, I think it is good for you to address this question. But we Messianics especially tend to get caught up in titles, labels, and terms. I think it would be very good to point out this (both) weakness and strength about us all. "Christian" meant followers of our Messiah in early Antioch. I was used negatively by detractors and good people died to refuse denying it. Then the Catholic Church perverted it's everyday meaning so that a great many Messianics refuse to even wear it. In, and of itself, it is an honorable term, as it was first given. For those who've never thought it out to see that, of course, the Messiah was not named "Jesus" first of all, that it is just how it got translated out now into English Bibles, knowing Messiah as Jesus is still correct. God does love Gentiles as much as us. But He judges the hearts and mind of us all. God knows who refused to be educated. And who knew better in the first place. Even Catholic was originally a good term.

A. L. Davis | March 12, 2009 5:19 PM

Thanks for posting these useful information. Keep them coming.

Simonn | March 21, 2009 6:52 PM

One thing to remember concerning Jewish distinction from Gentiles, is that in the Kingdom, when Mashiach reigns from the world capitol in Jerusalem, there will still exist non-Jewish nations. These nations will be required to make aliyah for the festival of Sukkot, otherwise they will not recieve any rain. This, to me, shows the future continuity of distinction between those from the nations and Israel. If we were all Jews, and Gentiles somehow ceased being Gentiles, then who are these "nations" that continue to exist? It is my understanding that there remains a distinction in terms between Jewish and Gentile believers in Mashiach. We are one in Mashiach, but distinct in culture and responsibility. We all should align our lives with Torah, as it applies to our position in the Body of Mashiach. We are not greater than one another, but we do play unique roles in the Body. If we were each an ear, all of us would hear but do nothing.

Rob Seibert | September 8, 2009 2:01 AM

Well, I kinda understand what you are trying to say, did we not all descend from 2 people, and are we not then all ascended from the 12 tribes that were scattered through-out the nations? Yahshua himself said that he came for the lost of Israel. Sorry, but when Yah says "don't learn the way of the Gentiles" if they have different ways than "His Ways" they are not His people. When you are grafted in, you are no longer a gentile, you are then his people "Israel" until then, you are a gentile and not his people.

Sher | September 12, 2010 1:38 PM

This is a great article but my quarrel with it is originally the word "Gentile" indeed referred to those who were not Jewish and who were actually considered to be pagan. Now that we are in Messiah and follow the Torah, how can we still use the term that separated us from the People of G-d by belief and ritual?

**Toby's Response:** Because this is what the Apostles used to refer to non-Jewish believers. I recommend you read my full article on this in Messiah Journal 101.

Maria | January 9, 2011 3:40 PM