Teaching Team
The Back of the Bus, part 2
In an earlier post, the controversial topic was brought up of gender-segregated bus lines in Israel. One woman who dared to defy the gender separation by refusing to sit in the section designated for women--the back of the bus--is being heralded as a modern-day Rosa Parks. I would like to offer another perspective on the matter.
Is a gender-separated bus an example of Orthodox Jewish sexism or misogyny, or is it reasonable to look at it in a different light? I would suggest that we as followers of Yeshua should be slow to cast criticism on others and sparing in judgment. It should be our first reaction to try to see another person's perspective before looking with contempt upon some of the Torah's most stringent and faithful practitioners.
Here are a few important facts that we must consider:
In these strictly observant communities, all physical contact is forbidden between individuals of opposite gender who are not married to each other and are not close relatives. This is not an issue of niddah or "uncleanness," or "gender roles" for that matter, but modesty and propriety. Riding on a crowded bus might be the only situation in which such a person is forced to be squished up against someone else's wife or husband--a situation that would make someone with this conviction very uncomfortable.
Not all buses in Israel are gender-separated. Gender-separated bus lines are a special service that bus lines voluntarily offer specifically to cater to the Charedi (strict Orthodox) communities. Most people in these communities, both men and women, appreciate this service.
In Japan, groping of women in subways has reached an epidemic level. Wikipedia states:
according to a survey conducted by Tokyo Metropolitan Police and East Japan Railway Company, two-thirds of female riders in their twenties and thirties reported that they had been groped on trains, and the majority had been victimized frequently.
You can find reports on this tragedy from ABC and CBS news. Regarding the same issue in South Korea, Reuters reported:
"Sexual crimes happen frequently when the cars are packed and people are pressed against each other," the subway official said.
As a result of this horrifying statistic, subway companies have begun to offer women-only subway cars to protect women. Far from being decried as an affront to civil liberties, this gender segregation is hailed as a victory for women's rights. Women finally feel like they can travel in safety, and even the men who end up in over-crowded carriages are relieved not to be in a situation where they might be falsely accused.
So who do we label with perversion? The strictly Torah observant Israeli men and women who voluntarily separate themselves from one another in order to be free from reproach?
The earlier post also brought the ruling of the late Rav Moshe Feinstein (zt"l) into the picture. There are a few things we should note about this as well:
First, Rav Moshe Feinstein was Orthodox and well respected, but he represented the most progressive end of Orthodox Judaism. The Charedim cannot be expected to look to him for halachic rulings.
Secondly, Rav Feinstein's ruling regarded subway trains in New York -- and what he ruled is that it is permissible for an Orthodox Jew to ride in the mixed-gender subway cars. He probably did so as a matter of practicality, since there really is no other viable option for New Yorkers. In Israel, the situation is different and other options exist, which Rav Feinstein would likely have supported.
So can we assume that this gender-separated bus line is something that Orthodox Jewish men imposed upon women in order to humiliate and subjugate them, or should we see it in a more positive light? Perhaps there are better solutions to the problem, although it is hard for any of us to know who do not ride those buses. But I would venture a guess that a majority of women on those strict Orthodox bus lines don't mind the situation and don't see the back-and-front arrangement as insulting at all.
A bigger and probably more straightforward issue in Israel is verbal and physical abuse including humiliation and threats that is sometimes found among the Charedim towards those who choose a different path. That is horrible and wrong, but it does not play exclusively into this issue or issues concerning men and women. It occurs across the board in all categories of observance. It is a problem that must be dealt with severely, but it cannot be leveled as evidence of misogyny.
And without a doubt, misogyny exists among some individuals in Charedi communities, and it must not be dismissed. But this is not it.
So which is the proper response for disciples of our Master Yeshua? Is this a situation that merits tossing tables? Or would it be an appropriate time to remove logs from our own eyes? The correct response, in my opinion, is the latter.
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Visitor Feedback:
I remember reading a story of a well-known, elderly, ultra orthodox rabbi who took the bus in Jerusalem. It was not a gender-separated busline. He was still several miles from his stop when an immodestly dressed Israeli girl got on and sat down next to him, placing him in an awkward situation.
He considered his options. If he stood up and moved to another seat, he knew that he would be embarrassing her. He also knew that asking her to move to another seat would be insulting to her. What would you do? Whether or not we feel that the issue of sitting next to an immodestly dressed person is a legitimate concern or not is irrelevant. To the elderly rabbi, it certainly was a concern.
Rather than embarrass or insult the girl, he instead turned to her as the bus came to the next stop and politely said, "Shalom, this is my stop." He got off the bus, and despite his age, walked several miles to reach his home. Rather than embarrass the girl and thereby cast Judaism in a negative light, he was willing to "go the extra mile."
This is a true story, and I feel it has applications for all of us who are pursuing Torah. It also helps explain the cultural background to the strange story about the gender issue on the bus.
D. Thomas Lancaster | January 21, 2008 11:23 AM
Thanks for this post, Aaron!
When I visit my Orthodox friends' houses, I LOVE that I don't have to think about whether to shake the husband's hand, or hug him or whatever. It's simply not done, and I never, ever feel less than or degraded in any way. I am actually a bit envious of the Orthodox community's extreme stance on modesty, and I love how it's one of many fences that help elevate marriage in that culture.
In Christian circles, although I prefer not to have physical contact with men other than my husband, I frequently feel awkward trying to figure out how to dodge hugs from male friends. (I'm hesitant to be direct about my preferences, lest they think I'm weirder than they already do!)
Hope E | January 21, 2008 2:42 PM
Aaron,
great post I think that you are right in a lot of ways, Daniels comment is a perfect example of how I think these things should be done (note: I am not against this if it is done gracefully) but when someone is spit on, verbally abused, and physically threatened then yes I do see that person as taking something beautiful (Jewish Law) and perverting it. Because people see that and they don’t know that not everyone is like that, so they automatically think in there mind that a man adhering to Jewish law would rather humiliate someone then sit next to them. Overall I think that this discussion is good.
Peace, Jeremiah
Response:
Jeremiah,
I think we are dealing with two issues here. One is the concept of gender-segregated bus lines. The other is the specific issue where Ms. Ragen and a man on the bus were engaged in a dispute.
On the first issue, I think I made a case that a gender-segregated bus is not a bad idea in and of itself. Perhaps an opposing case could also be made.
I didn't really address the second issue, and that is the dispute between those two individuals. I don't have enough information to cast judgment on either one of the parties involved, but in situations like that there is usually no clear "good guy." I get the impression that they both were acting like juveniles. It seems like no matter who was at fault, the dispute was not handled properly.
If the problem is gender-separated buses, that's one thing. If the problem is conflict resolution, that's another thing. Confusing the two is like saying that marriage is an inherently sexist institution and should be abolished because there are some men who abuse their wives (God forbid).
But if we choose to enter the dispute ourselves, we need to be very, very careful that we are a voice of reason and civility, and not just another person on the sidelines pointing fingers and hurling insults. Otherwise, we are no better than they are. I am not saying that we have done that; I am just trying to prevent something like that from happening.
Peace
Aaron
Jeremiah | January 21, 2008 5:24 PM
Yes and I think that is very good.
Jeremiah | January 21, 2008 6:47 PM
Aaron;
Thanks for helping us to "See the other Side".
All too often we tend to point out the speck of dust in our brother's eyes without removing the plank from our own.
Thanks for reminding everyone of the beauty and true intent of Orthodox halachah - honoring HaShem, honoring fellow man, and avoiding transgressing both.
PS - Excellent story for reference by DTL.
S. Daniel Gerlitz | January 22, 2008 12:31 AM
Hi Aaron,
I totally agree with your assessment and I have a practical question I hope you can answer:
Formerly I had no difficulty upon greeting a friend of the opposite gender to give three kisses, yet now that I have, how should I deal with this if I come to the situation where someone attempts to greet me in that fashion, should I turn away my head, in which case I would certainly humiliate the person or should I say before coming to that situation that I would prefer not to do so? Or maybe something else?
Any help is appreciated,
Daniel
Daniel K | January 22, 2008 5:13 AM
So, Japanese women aren't the only ones that have asked for (and received) segregated transportation:
click
Women in Mexico now have "women only" buses - due to complaints about harassment & groping. Sounds like a trend!
Personally, if I had to rely on buses, especially crowded buses, I would be THANKFUL for a separate place from strange men. The general public is far too unrestrained.
Shalom!
Pati in WA
Pati in WA | January 24, 2008 8:14 PM
Being familiar with the Orthodox lifestyle, and attending church a few times with my wife; I was taken back with the liberty of hugging and the comments made to my wife in a church setting. She gets no huggs at my shul, but gets treated with a ladylike respect. We are taught our wives is a great gift from Hashem, to be treasured all the days of our life. So I go with what Judiaism teaches about modesty.
David Roth | January 25, 2008 9:06 PM
My wife invited me to a non Jewish religious meeting once where she was in a play on stage. I was taken back by the freedom some men had in hugging and making comments to my wife after the show. She knew I was offended and offered an explanation that smoothed over the situation temporarily. This action happened years ago and still would offend me. We no longer visit non Jewish meetings. The training receieved from my Rabbi and Torah gives training in being a gentleman and treating your wife as a proverbial lady, a lifelong mate. Never put yourself or others in a compromising situation, as there are a lack of values in the religious world.
Da'vid ben Yehoshua | January 26, 2008 7:03 AM
Aaron,
I appreciate your perspective and agree with your post whole-heartedly. I have ridden many buses in Israel, including the gender-separated buses for the Chareidim. I can think of the many trips to kever Rachel on the outskirts of Bethlehem where I, as a man, could safely sit or stand among other men while my wife could feel secure sitting among the women who usually prayed the psalms, or spoke with one another softly. This sort of environment became a picture for me of Paul's command to "avoid every appearance of evil."
My opinion is that if one has not experienced such a phenomenon (radical modesty) among the very people being analyzed by these posts, one ought to hold their tongue regarding criticism and judgment. I'm saddened to see those in the Messianic movement who quickly attack Jewish law and see the burden rather than the blessing. Your statement, "It should be our first reaction to try to see another person's perspective before looking with contempt upon some of the Torah's most stringent and faithful practitioners" is correct and the alternative appears to be the fragments of some form of antisemitism still embedded in believers' psyches, cutting and doing damage to the body.
I heard someone (I"m sorry I can't recall who right now) compare Torah and Jewish law to a person lifting a 40 pound jug of water to put on top of a water cooler. The 40lbs of water is almost unbearable. Yet, when one dives into the ocean, there are billions of pounds of water pressing against one's back and yet the feeling is light and pleasant, liberating. This is the difference between someone who is still on the outside looking in and those who have taken Nachshon's leap into Torah waters.
May we all get very wet.
Shalom,
Yehoshua
Yehoshua | January 28, 2008 11:11 AM
The youth group I attended when I was a teen had a (male) assistant leader who was very affectionate to all the girls and would hug and tickle them all the time. The mindset of the church endorsed this behavior; no one thought anything of it. However he was using these "innocent" hugs to touch the girls inappropriately, and this went on in front of other people, even his own wife, (he was very sly) and no one caught on for years.
I have observed and heard about this sort of opportunistic behavior in men several times over the years. Needless to say I do not allow a member of the opposite sex to hug me though I do not usually mind shaking hands if it is offered. Christian pastors do not teach their congregations appropriate behavior between the sexes; they are naive or worse and encourage men and women to hug each other.
I recently had some interaction with the Chabad community in my area and although it was a little annoying that the rabbi never looked at me in the eye, at least I didn't have to worry that he was looking at me elsewhere, which happens commonly when speaking with pastors.
We should certainly teach our young people in their bar/bat mitzvah classes that we simply don't touch people of the opposite sex. But then we'd have to have leaders who model that behavior as well, and I can't say I have met many Messianic leaders who model this.
Rachel Abrams | January 28, 2008 8:42 PM
Assuming that those in charge who have segregated the bus are men, then perhaps they should sit in the back of the bus and allow the women the better seats at the front. Or they could charge the women a lower price for requiring them to sit in the poorer seats. Perhaps they really are sincere in their desire to not comingle with unrelated women, but their solution is a poor one.
Wayne | January 28, 2008 10:42 PM
Wayne says, "Assuming that those in charge who have segregated the bus are men, then perhaps they should sit in the back of the bus and allow the women the better seats at the front...their solution is a poor one." Having been on these buses myself (see my post above), the seats in the back of the bus are exactly the same as the ones in the front. What Wayne and others don't realize is that there is an exit door in the back AND the front. The seats are the same quality, are next to the same bullet-proofed windows and siding of the bus, accessible to the same air/heat, lights, etc. In fact, the women are safer in the back because in the front there are more windows which adds a higher level of danger to incoming assaults.
Does knowing the seats are equal change your point of view?
Yehoshua | January 29, 2008 8:48 AM
Yehoshua,
Fifty years ago in the south (of the US) all the bus seats were the same, but blacks were told to sit in the back. Those buses also had a door at the back. What was the problem? The first problem was that blacks were being told in not quite so many words that they weren't good enough to sit with whites. The second problem is that no matter how good the back seats are, the ride is much rougher in the back, simply due to physics and geometry. So in answer to your question, no, my opinion is still the same. If the men want to be separate from the women, the women should have been given the choice of where to sit. When Avraham deemed it necessary to part company with Lot, as the elder of the two, he would have been well within his rights to choose what he wanted and give Lot the leftovers. He very graciously allowed Lot first choice. I don't see these men acting very graciously to the women.
Wayne | January 30, 2008 6:31 PM
Women are equal in value, but do not require precisely the same treatment as men. We each have a different life purpose.
I do not expect the butcher to make me beautiful candles, the baker to cut my steak professionally, or the candle-stick-maker to bake a light fluffy wedding cake for my daughter's wedding.
The idea of sitting separately pleases me if I am travelling alone. But if I am accompanied by my husband, I would find the separation irritating. I cannot decide whether I would rather be sent to the back (and have to brush against all the front-sitters and be stared at) or be seated at the front (with the men filing past--staring or bumping me).
I suggest, then, that any community who decides to gender segregate bus rides should purchase those lovely double deckers that London uses. Ahhh! But then, should we put men or women on the top....
Danuta Lesko | February 2, 2008 8:57 AM
Hi Aaron,
I really enjoyed this article. For the first time in many years, it has become clear to me the separation of gender.
I guess it took an example such as this, the women riding separate from the men in a public bus.
In the beginning of your writings, I was offended when you mentioned only the married men and women feeling uncomfortable being pressed into strangers of the opposite gender. I am not married, but I also would have those offended feelings being pressed into a stranger. I have experienced those crowded buses years ago and even today when I have thought of ways to cut my budget, I considered giving up my monthly parking rate in a ramp and board a metro transit instead. It has only been the memories of years ago on those crowded buses with all the men that have prevented me from doing so. I remember the days, seats would not be given up for a very expecting woman with child, but she would have to stand and try to balance herself in the crowded aisle.
I enjoyed this article, and it has made me change my mind on the gender separation in Judaism. I also have enjoyed hearing others opinions being posted in regards to it, but still have to agree, I like the separation, I would feel very safe with it.
Thank you Aaron,
Cathy
Cathy Gallagher | February 2, 2008 11:42 AM
i think the real problem with the situation with naomi ragen was not just the fact of segregation but the way that she was treated by those men. a quote from the article says "Miriam Shear, an Israeli-American woman on vacation from Canada, says she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of ultra-Orthodox men in November 2006 when she refused to move to the back of Egged bus No. 2 on its way to the Western Wall." i think this is the real roblem that needs to be dealt with. if we choose segregation fine but to impose it with force without proper notification can and will (as it already has)cause injury.
a quick question in this broken world we live in what do you do in reality, because we have people coming in to this movement from many differnt backgrounds. how do you know the man next to you in the bus isnt homosexual and the accedential touch just turned him on? and with segregation how about transgendered people will there be a spot in the middle? the sad fact is that we have to actually contemplate it. what do we do with touch then. if any touch can cause problems do we just stop any public touch? especially when human touch is an integral part of health and living. so for myself in any given situation i try to read the person, and my keep motives pure.
peace
brucks | February 10, 2008 1:04 AM
I grew up in a parochial school that segregated males and females. And it was quite a shock to enter the world that does not separate by gender much at all in 8th grade when I entered public school. Now, we ride public transportation and have for 7 years. There is nothing wrong with gender separations for good reasons. Such as in social areas with bad groping problems. Or lots of people not at all adapted to being forced to sit next to and/or touching strangers of the opposite gender. When women raised in cultures that separate get tossed away by husbands through divorce it is quite unbelievable a society that allows them to be raised that way can then, not accommodate them. What is awful is that other women can not understand their needs at all. I seems more hurtful for ones own sex to be the least tolerant of limitations like these. It's not like she lost out of a career opportunity or food or shelter for riding separated.
Angela Davis | February 17, 2008 3:50 AM