Toby;

After reading this article on Sunday, I too became exceptionally disheartened, and it made me realize how thankful I was to attend the TWSWG conference.

It would seem that many people in our movement are like those who Paul describes in Ephesians 4:

"As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;"

We must realize that although sometimes things are difficult, the easiest path is never the right path. Having been pressured to seek a formal conversion myself, I know full well the emotional struggle and identity crisis we tend to suffer from when we do not realize our place in the Messiah, and nowhere else. The work of our Master is thoroughly complete. Period.

Matthew 7:14
"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it"

This passage means more now than ever. Be strong.

Shalom,
SDG

Scott Gerlitz | November 27, 2007 7:43 PM

I wonder why they felt they needed to convert before they followed Torah and Jewish customs. They really needed to study the Torah Clubs as a congregaton!

Rachel | November 27, 2007 7:54 PM

I just read the article - and all I can say is "wow." : (

It is very saddening to hear this story - I am very thankful that Adonai is using people like FFOZ (and too many more Messianic writers / teachers to name here) to teach not only Torah - but how the things in Torah are affirmed in the B'rit Hadasha.

I just read a good book about the Mezuzah authored by none other than Mr. Janicki himself, which also speaks of the Torah importance - and affirms and gives examples in the B'rit Hadasha.

I look forward to more of the Mayim Chaim series for more of these great examples. (hopefully we'll see one on Kashrut?!)

Rob D. | November 28, 2007 9:30 AM

This article touches on an important point, churches and people who dabble in Hebrew Roots and learn only the surface material that suggests that Judaism is more correct/Biblical than Modern Christianity, are in a precarious situation. I have seen on several occasions, people who attended non-Torah-observant Messianic congregations or who didn't really grasp the message of a Torah-observant apostolic community that included both Jewish and gentile peoples, who converted to Judaism and reject Jesus/Yeshua as Messiah. I believe that many Christians who convert do not realize that it it not necessary to reject Messiah in order to live according to God's commands.

Unfortunately, on the other side of the coin, other Messianics who are/were avid students become infatuated with Jewish sources, halachic practice, and mysticism, deciding that the anti-missionaries are correct and that Yeshua is not the Son of God, the Eternal One in Whom all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form; they too are in grave spiritual danger.

I pray that the message of "To Whom Shall We Go" continues to be spread thoughout the World and that Messiah Yeshua is not further debased by these conversions.

Shalom,
Tami

Tami | November 28, 2007 9:56 AM

It is also a good reminder to us that if the Torah does begin to take hold in Christian communities (which I beleive it will) that people of faith be taught correctly in the first place. That is where I beleive that our generation will be valuable. It is also where I beleive that the work of FFOZ will be priceless in the generations to come.

Bill Beyer | November 28, 2007 10:11 AM

In My opinion until the church and the world begin to see the Master in the context of Torah Judaism this thing will happen again and again. And programs like daystar and TBN do not help at all, I watched a program the other day on daystar and I am ashamed to say I found my self saying "this is a false religion" Like I said before untill the Master is seen in the context of Torah Judaism this thing will happen the two are not opposed.

Peace, Jeremiah.

Jeremiah | November 28, 2007 3:16 PM

It breaks my heart to read this:'( So much ignorance is leading people astray. Truly our brothers and sisters are destroyed for lack of knowledge.. May this all inspire us to double our efforts in all areas of faith and especially with the study of Torah, so that we will be able to give everybody a sound answer and not be swayed back and forth by heresies. Thank you FFOZ for all the great work you are doing, keep on going because it has already saved a lot of people!

Daniel_K | November 29, 2007 3:41 AM

This article is seductive, as he begins to tell you his story and the miracle of healing he recieved. There is an excitement as you begin to learn Torah and the unexplainable desire for your Jewish roots that can lead you down the path these folks went. If you don't know the truth of God in your heart and try the spirit at every turn, then converting may be appealing. I have to pray not to be misled! My Messianic beliefs are questioned by family who are rooted in christian teachings that are anti-jewish, and anti-Torah, and it is hard to continue to believe in Christianity when you realize the deception with which it is portrayed. I believe a strong faith in Yeshua Mesiah will help protect you from deception, but the pull toward understanding your Jewish roots is strong.
There are so many "fine lines" available, and who is there to help you across. I pray your work to inform others of those "fine lines" will be blessed. We are all in need.

Barbara | November 30, 2007 7:18 AM

This article also shows us the importance of apologetics training. Apparently, this pastor and church had never studied books that defend the Gospel against such ludicrous claims.

What's more, if they were consistent in applying their criteria, they would have to reject the Tanakh as well.

But the good news is that we can pray that they would repent and return to their first love. After all, Peter denied the Masters three times in one night. Surely God's arm is not too short to save.

Shabbat shalom

Seth | November 30, 2007 8:40 AM

Well said, Barbara.

"Seductive" is an appropriate description.

There is a great deal of tension between Orthodox Judaism and traditional Christianity. In Messiah, we walk a precariously "fine-line" indeed.

The risk of falling to one side or the other is great and the consequences are potentially catastrophic.

Yet, as DT Lancaster has put it, the tension is necessary and we must become comfortable in that tension in order to find balance between the two.

Shalom.
Crispin

webbmd | November 30, 2007 9:12 AM

One particular line in the article sent off warning bells in my head. He mentioned the "seven pillars of human civilization" and stated:

"Minister Flores explained that any human being who faithfully observes these laws EARNS a proper place in heaven." (emphasis mine)

The very idea that we fallen human beings are capable of "earning" anything from HaShem strikes me as remarkably anti-Torah.

What a tragedy for these people, to have the beauty of the Written Torah misused to seduce them away from the Living Torah. I pray that they will become so discontent with trying to live a life without Yeshua that they will turn back to him, all the stronger for having experienced the wrong path.

Carrie | November 30, 2007 9:41 AM

Shalom to all. Very fascinating story of a pastor and his church converting to Judaism. As a beleiver who has studied the Jewish Roots of our faith for several years now, this is a common thing in the Messianic/Hebrew Roots movement. Yeshua said in the Gospel of John that He is the Vine, we are the branches. Without Y"shua, we can do nothing (John 15:1-5), and Yeshua being the ONLY way to the Father (14:6). To put it the most loving way, the Messianic Movement doesn't rank too well as far as discipleship/evangelism department. By YHWH's grace, that can too change. May we all in the Messianic movement ponder and take these warnings that our Messiah tells to "be ye not deceived". Shalom.

David Niles | December 19, 2007 11:41 PM

To say that massive amounts of people are converting to orthodox judaism, seems to be a large statement. Can you offer some solid statistics to back up this statement?
We know about 35 families within the "Messianic Movement"
Out of those 35 families,one young couple did convert. So, yes, there are people converting, massive amounts? I am not so sure. There will always be a certain percentage of people who convert. FFOZ offers truth, what people do with that truth is up to them. But my main point is that people
converting, no matter what the numbers, is a symptom of a
bigger problem. That problem is a lack of stable, Torah observant communities. We can have Messiah and be Torah
observant.

*Toby's Response:* I understand what you are saying about congregations but we have been traveling the US and seen that this is a major issue that goes beyond isolated cases of single families. It is sad but true.

william hindle | December 23, 2007 9:59 AM

I remember hearing about a certain woman who had a very popular web site early on in the messianic movement. I am from a charismatic background and she was also charismatic, so i went to find out what she would say about the messianic movement.
At that time, I was looking for reassurance that this movement was of God.
I went to her web site, and guess what she'd done? Rejected Yeshua! I decided to be angry at her for awhile.
Now I know she was seduced by the same thing that almost tore another young woman away from Yeshua at my synagogue... very learned rabbis that keep learning but never arrive at the Truth. How did the Roman soldiers handle Yeshua's answer. "I am He"? They fell backwards. Jesus, Your name is Power.

Ginny | September 6, 2010 12:20 AM